We see historicism at play in prophecy, which is prophecy unfolding overtime. Prophecy is the telling of the future, and there is only one future. So, what we need to understand is simply this, there is one prophecy, and tells the future. Again, Daniel and Revelation are one big prophecy. God is brilliant how he has recorded it for us to understand. He shows us the future, pictorially in symbols – from different angles, as it relates to the great controversy. Revelation is a greater enlargement of Daniel. Jesus tells us ahead of time what is to come so we are prepared, so we have peace, and so we believe (John 13:19, 14:29, 16:33; Matt. 24:25).
Is There a Conflict in Scripture?
Daniel 8:9 records that the “little horn” came out of one of the four winds of heaven, meaning out of a fixed location.
“And out of one of them (see vs. 8) came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south (Egypt), and toward the east (Greece, Asia Minor, Syria), and toward the pleasant land (Israel).” Comments added.
Since it conquered towards the south, east, and pleasant land, that only leaves north and west. In Daniel 11, we see the “little horn” is called ‘king of the north’, so we know that he comes from the north.
There is only one kingdom that conquered in those three directions to its rise to power and that nation was Rome. In Daniel 8, the ‘little horn’ represents both political/pagan Rome and ecclesiastical/papal Rome. As we study, we see that initially it only conquers horizontally meaning geographically; then suddenly he shifts and he is fighting vertically – meaning he is fighting against the God of heaven (v. 10). There is a distinct transition from political/pagan to ecclesiastical/papal; however, we must not forget there is a mingling between church and state. The state serves as the right arm to the church.
Daniel 7:8, “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”
The ‘little horn’ is conquering horizontally as we see in the plucking up three of the existing ten horns (kingdoms), however, it is ecclesiastical in nature. These three kingdoms were Arian and did not agree with the church and its doctrines. So, they were eliminated. Then, in verse 19 it is described as being fierce: “exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron*, and his nails of brass*; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet.” This is describing the manner in which it made its geographical conquests. In verse 20, it again mentions – as it came up, before it three horns fell. In verse 24, the fallen three kingdoms are mentioned again.:
Also, Rome continues on until the end of time because we find in the feet/10 toes of the image, where the iron is mingled with *clay…this is your church state union. As a side note, we also see the division of the Roman Empire in the feet as well, more specifically the 10 toes. This parallels the 10 horns on the fourth beast.
*Note: The ‘iron’ and ‘brass’ takes us back to Daniel 2. There are two parallels to Nebuchadnezzar’s image, 1) with the belly/thighs of brass and 2) with the legs of iron. This tells us that Rome existed in the time of Greece (brass) and rose to power as fourth kingdom of the legs of iron. Also, Rome continues on until the end of time because we find it in the feet/10 toes of the image. The political/pagan mingles with the ecclesiastical/papal, creating a church/state collaboration. It is fact, that Rome still exists today and we know it as the Vatican, Papacy, and previously as the Holy Roman Empire.
The latter part of Daniel 7:8 we then see a sudden change, it has the eyes of a man and it is speaking great things. In verse 25 the ‘great things” are defined as great words against the most High. Revelation 13:5-8 tells us those ‘great things’ is coupled with “blasphemies”.
In verse 20, it is repeated that the ‘little horn’ had eyes and a mouth that spake VERY great things, its look was more stout in terms of power and influence*, and it persecutes (made war with, wears out) the saints of the Most High and prevailed against them (v. 25), and thinks to change times and laws of the Most High (v. 25).
*This ‘little horn” was determined, uncompromising, and obstinate.
Daniel 7:9 records that the “little horn” rises from the terrible and dreadful fourth beast, which came up among the ten horns, plucking up three of the ten horns as it rose. So, we know that the ‘little horn’ rises after the fall of Rome when it is divided.
Daniel 7 tells us that the ‘little horn’ comes up from Rome, and in Daniel 8 we are told that it comes from one of the four winds of heaven. This actually is not difficult to understand as one may believe. Both statements are true. The ‘little horn’ rose up from the divided Roman Empire, it was in existence but simply gain power and prominence; likewise, during the Grecian Empire – Rome had a fixed location and was known as the Roman Republic. There is no conflict with its association with both Grecian Empire and the Roman Empire.
The Fourth Kingdom
The fourth kingdom, symbolized by the terrible and dreadful fourth beast, and the “little horn” which rises from the fourth kingdom are both Rome. They are intertwined (iron mingled with miry clay-Dan. 2). It conquers horizontally in its geographic conquests, but then there is a sudden shift and the attacks become vertical towards heaven. Understanding the context helps one to know which phase is being emphasized, but the basic ‘rule of thumb’ is that the fourth beast and ‘little horn’ that comes forth from the fourth kingdom are both Rome.
The fourth kingdom and the ‘little horn’ are intertwined (iron mingled with miry clay-Dan. 2). In Daniel 7, we see It conquers horizontally in its geographic conquests, but then there is a sudden shift when the ‘little horn’ the attacks become vertical towards heaven. We see the same thing with the ‘little horn’ in Daniel 8. Below is a comparison of the “little horn” in Daniel 7 and 8:
- Both are referred to as a horn (qeren H7162), even though Daniel 7 is written in Aramaic and Daniel 8 is in Hebrew; the same Hebrews word is used for both.
- Both are described as ‘little’.
- Both become ‘great’ after they had a small beginning.
- Both are described as persecuting powers.
- Both persecute the same target group, that is against the people/saints of the Most High.
- Both of them are self-exalting and blasphemous powers
- Both are distinguished by crafty intelligence, one has the eyes of a man and a mouth speaking blasphemy or great things (Dan. 7), and the other understands dark sentence, riddles, cunning, and deceit (Dan. 8).
- Both represent the final power that will rule upon this earth.
- Both of these horns have to do with prophetic time.
- Both horns extend until the time of the end.
- Both are supernaturally destroyed when Jesus comes.
William Shay, Old Testament scholar, says this, “If the prophet (meaning Daniel) had desired to represent different powers in this final position, he could easily have used different symbols to do so; but instead, he used the same symbol of a little horn at the end of the vision in chapter eight as he did at the end of the vision in chapter seven. This commonality of representation suggests that the same symbol has been used to refer to the same power in both cases. Symposium on Daniel, page 187.
There is no conflict here, the “little horn” of Daniel 7 is the same that we find in Daniel 8.
*Click here for the post on Symbols and Their Meaning.
There is no conflict, the terrible fourth beast and the “little horn” are both Rome. Rome was a part of “other” that was left after the predominate division among the Diadochi, which included Carthage, Roman Republic, and Greek States. These did not have the ‘might’ at the time to be considered officially as part of the four predominate kingdoms, but was still a part of the Greek Empire. Remember, that the Roman Empire came out of one of the four winds…not out of one of the four horns; however, this shows us Rome’s relationship with the Grecian Empire. So, when we are told that the “little horn” came out of one of the four winds – that is true, and when we are told that it came up among the ten horns on the terrible fourth beast – that is also true.
Updated 01/04/2024, Reorganized the information in hopes to make it an easier read.